Security Confidential S15 E0 Robert Kerbeck

Manoj Tandon: Okay, there we go. Hello, everyone. This is your host, Manoj Tandon. Welcome to another episode of Dark Rhiino Security: Security Confidential. Today is a very special episode for us—it is episode number 150. We’ve been at this for several years now. And we have an honest-to-god celebrity on the show. Robert Kerbeck is here to join us.

For those of you who don’t know—and I think many of you do—he is a former corporate spy, an actor, an acclaimed author, and the founder of the Malibu Writers Circle. I don’t know how he finds the time to do all these things, but he’s written the book Malibu Burning, and his latest memoir is Ruse: Lying the American Dream from Hollywood to Wall Street, and it offers great insight into corporate spycraft.

Robert, thank you for joining us today on this wonderful episode. Appreciate you being a title guest here.

Robert Kerbeck: Well, thank you for having me, and congratulations on the achievement. That’s pretty impressive. I mean, in this day and age, there are a lot of podcasts that come and go. So to get to do 150 shows—congratulations.

Manoj Tandon: Thank you, Robert. Thank you. You know, you have a heck of a background. I mean, you have worked with the likes of Paul Newman, you’ve waited tables, and you have been amazingly successful in the corporate spy world as well. These are all such eclectic things. How did you get into spy craft?

And why not stick to acting? I guess that’s the question. What gives?

Robert Kerbeck: You know, as a young guy, my hometown is Philadelphia, and my family is very well known in the automobile business. So if you’re looking for a deal on a Maserati, tell them I sent you. My great-grandfather sold horse carriages before automobiles were invented. He became one of the first car dealers in Philadelphia. My grandfather took over the dealership, my father took it over, and I was supposed to take it over.

But I fell in love with acting in college and wanted to move to New York to become an actor. And of course, as you mentioned, actors need survival jobs—bartending or waiting tables. But who stumbles into corporate espionage? That’s what happened to me.

One of the only people I knew in New York mentioned this job and then immediately clammed up like he wasn’t supposed to talk about it. I pressed him, and eventually he got me an interview. I went to this penthouse apartment on the Upper East Side—beautiful place—and realized whatever she did, it was lucrative. That was my entry into corporate spying.

Manoj Tandon: I gotta ask—what was that interview like? Is there even a resume for that?

Robert Kerbeck: That was the strange part. She never asked for a resume, never asked about my skills. She just asked about my relationship with my father—how he felt about me leaving the family business. I thought I had blown it.

Then my friend called and said, “You’re hired—but don’t get excited, nobody can do this job.” Actors would try it and quit within an hour. But I went to training and learned we’d be calling corporations, using acting skills to convince people to give up sensitive information.

Manoj Tandon: So you’re not hacking systems—you’re hacking people.

Robert Kerbeck: Exactly. I always say I hack people. Once I hack a person, they’ll tell me everything about systems, passwords, networks—anything.

We’d pose as executives—“This is Gerhard calling from Frankfurt”—create urgency, and people would want to help. They’d even go get information from others inside the company for me.

Manoj Tandon: Wouldn’t they ask for email confirmation?

Robert Kerbeck: Often, yes. And if I couldn’t overcome that, my goal was to “put them to sleep”—delay them so they wouldn’t alert others. I’d promise an email later, buying time to get the info elsewhere.

Manoj Tandon: That’s fascinating—and terrifying.

Robert Kerbeck: It works because people want to help and be good teammates.

Manoj Tandon: This highlights something we say all the time—cybersecurity is not an IT problem, it’s a people problem.

Robert Kerbeck: Absolutely. Companies spend millions on tech but hesitate to invest in social engineering training—which costs a fraction.

Manoj Tandon: Why is that so hard for organizations to grasp?

Robert Kerbeck: It’s changing slowly, especially after major incidents like MGM. But it’s still surprisingly difficult to get companies to prioritize human-focused security.

Manoj Tandon: On your site, you tell a story about someone sharing deeply personal information—like having cancer. Why would someone share that with a stranger?

Robert Kerbeck: Because we build relationships. People want connection. You become “telephone friends.” Once trust is established, people open up—even sharing things you never asked for.

Manoj Tandon: Do you fully embody the persona when doing this?

Robert Kerbeck: Absolutely. I’d become the character—accent, mindset, everything. That authenticity builds trust.

Manoj Tandon: Why not just stick to acting?

Robert Kerbeck: Money. Acting is incredibly difficult financially. I was working consistently, but still barely getting by. At the height of my spying career, I was making $2 million a year from home.

Manoj Tandon: That’s incredible.

Robert Kerbeck: It was lucrative—but also ethically complex, which I explore in the book.

Manoj Tandon: Speaking of your book—tell us about Ruse.

Robert Kerbeck: It’s a true story that reads like a spy novel. The main storyline is corporate espionage, but there’s also a “B story” of my acting experiences with celebrities.

One example—I worked with O.J. Simpson the week before the murders. At the time, I didn’t think anything like that could happen, but looking back, there were warning signs.

Manoj Tandon: That’s wild. Any other memorable encounters?

Robert Kerbeck: I once hung up on Yoko Ono. And I worked with George Clooney when he thought his career was over—right before ER made him a star.

Manoj Tandon: That’s incredible perspective.

Robert Kerbeck: It shows how quickly things can change.

Manoj Tandon: Do you think that level of fame brings happiness?

Robert Kerbeck: Not necessarily. What we see publicly often isn’t reality. Many people project a polished image that hides deeper struggles.

Manoj Tandon: What’s the biggest insight you’ve learned about human nature?

Robert Kerbeck: People want connection. That’s the driving force behind everything—social media, relationships, and even vulnerability to manipulation.

Manoj Tandon: And listening plays a big role?

Robert Kerbeck: Huge. You have to be an exceptional listener—what I call “extreme listening”—to understand objections and guide the conversation.

Manoj Tandon: If someone wants a signed copy of Ruse, how can they get one?

Robert Kerbeck: You can check Diesel Books in Brentwood, or go to my website, RobertKerbeck.com, and contact me directly.

Manoj Tandon: Anything else you’d like to share?

Robert Kerbeck: Ruse is being developed into a TV series, hopefully coming in 2025.

Manoj Tandon: Fantastic. Robert, thank you for being guest number 150. Your story offers incredible lessons for cybersecurity and beyond.

Robert Kerbeck: My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Manoj Tandon: And for our audience—please like and subscribe if you enjoyed this episode. It helps us bring more great guests like Robert to the show. Thanks again, Robert.

Robert Kerbeck: My pleasure. Thank you.